[packman] rebuilding gstreamer every day?

[Dave Plater]

On 6/19/16, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB at opensuse.org> wrote:
> On 19 June 2016 at 16:41, Dave Plater <davejplater at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The pkg in multimedia:libs is about one hundred, thousand, million
>>> times more at risk of being broken than the pkg in Factory
>>
>> Not if it's well maintained
>
> There is _NO SUCH THING_ as a well maintained Devel Project.
>
> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model
>
> They EXIST to be where things are put together, broken and ultimately
> fixed before being submitted to Factory for testing into Tumbleweed
>
> A Devel Project which doesn't break from time to time is not doing
> it's job properly.
Firstly, I've been a multimedia and other single  packages, package
maintainer in openSUSE since 2009 and fixed many bugs. I think that my
opinion is qualified. Breakages used to occur in Factory and now they
are picked up in Tumbleweed and they are fixed in a branch of the
devel project. Upstream releases packages that have been tested across
the entire Linux spectrum of distributions. If I pick up a breakage I
first look if it has been fixed upstream in git or whatever revision
control system is used and apply a patch.

>>>
>>> Because it's a devel project, where packages are MEANT to be broken
>>> from time to time, meanwhile we KNOW the ffmpeg packages in Factory
>>> work as they get tested in openQA as part of the VLC testing.
>>>
>>> I've said it before and I'll say it again Packman building against
>>> multimedia:libs has always been silly
>>
>> Once Packman packages weren't linked and that resulted in many
>> problems with incompatible libraries and out of sync maintenance.
>
> I have no problem with linking, but link to the right thing for petes sake
>
> ffmpeg in Packman is linked to openSUSE.org:multimedia:libs
>
> This means it is version 3.0.2
>
> In Tumbleweed ffmpeg is 2.8.6
>
> In Leap ffmpeg is 2.8.6
>
> In Leap 42.2 ffmpeg is 2.8.6
>
> End result: Any Packman user is now forced to upgrade ffmpeg and
> potentially ffmpeg related packages, including many multimedia
> applications, to the versions in packman to a version of ffmpeg which
> is UNTESTED and NOT SUPPORTED by the openSUSE Project (yet)
ffmpeg is well tested upstream, I use the latest version on Leap and I
use ffmpeg frequently.
I have the ffmpeg libraries from both ffmpeg ABI 3 and 2 on my system,
this is what the shared library policy is all about and the ffmpeg
developers stick to the policy, ffmpeg libraries and gstreamer
libraries are the keystone of linux multimedia.

>
> In short, this is dangerous, wrong, stupid and downright idiotic.. and
> I'm being polite and holding back what i really think about it.
>
> At the very LEAST ffmpeg in Packman should be linked to Factory/Tumbleweed

No, Packman users want the latest packages, Packman is the Tumbleweed
of multimedia but it doesn't have automatic tests like Tumbleweed
because it isn't an installation media it is a repository for packages
that cannot be in the openSUSE distribution.
>
> Packman for Leap should be linked to the version in Leap, so that
> users do not have to suffer needless risk upgrading their packages.
>
>> Packman is a safe way for users to get the newest packages, especially
>> Leap users because it rarely gets new packages. It's a pity somebody
>> doesn't donate some extra server power to Packman to speed up the
>> build cycle. Maintaining the Packman packages in multimedia apps and
>> libs has taken away the old volatility that used to come from Packman.
>> It's a far better option to enabling multiple obs repositories for Leap.
>
> No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another
> example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned
> packagers who know what they're talking about.

I actually don't agree with the zypper dup -r Packman model and would
rather see a Requires: package-version-release model but this is still
to be qualified, I never dup Packman, I just looked at my mix of
gstreamer packages and they are from both openSUSE and Packman with no
ill effects.

>
> And I'm not really talking about myself, you can ignore me all you
> want, but Bjorn is an expert on all things packaging and OBS,
> especially when it comes to large projects, it's downright crazy that
> his good advice appears to be ignored.
>
> Just as Tomas Chvatal's has been ignored on this list repeatedly.
>
> Please guys, I've been a long supporter of Packman, even running
> several servers for pmbs before I changed employer, so not erode my
> goodwill and poison my soft spot for your efforts by stubbornly
> sticking to your guns and risking the smooth operation of Tumbleweed
> and Leap users in the process.
>
> Please link your packages more appropriately.
> Please do whatever you can to avoid unnecessary drift between Packman
> and the distributions for which you are building Packman for.
> Please rebuild="direct"
>
> and Please listen to guys like Bjorn and Tomas when they give advice,
> they know what they're talking about
>
> - Richard
>   http://rootco.de
>
I've only recently started active maintenance in Packman and I monitor
the list daily and recently have seen very few real breakages.
This thread was actually started to report a potential OBS/PMBS
problem but I don't see a resolution of the question of why gstreamer
is actually rebuilding so frequently.
As I stated I don't agree with zypper dup Packman unless it is used as
a quick way of fixing a problem but these problems don't occur often
besides, in this case it only caused frequent gstreamer updates.

Best Regards
Dave Plater
proud openSUSE member, user plater